Re: Andi Dorfman- Bachelor 18 Contestant- Spoilers/Discussion

by eliza3 Sat Mar 01, 2014 11:46 pm

pbmax wrote:
Nativenewyorker wrote:I believe that feelings aren't right or wrong, they just are. Andi felt disrespected by JP in the fantasy suite. I can understand her not liking hearing JP talk about his overnight date with Clare. I can also understand her not liking him tell her that she barely made it to the F3. Why would anyone want to hear that? There is honesty and then there is a kind of honesty that is really a kind of cruelty and callousness. It's not necessary for anyone to say exactly what is on their mind every single hour of the day. Sometimes it's best to hold back. It's all about being respectful of others and sensitive to their feelings. JP saying that this is who he is and he's just being honest, is a bit disingenuous. I have known people who trumpeted their so-called honesty, but it was really their way of rationalizing their own hostility and anger. That's why I am always a bit skeptical when anyone starts going on and on about just being honest.

I think that Andi made her decision and all that was left was to tell JP. Where I think she got lost is when she let his responses get to her. It really didn't matter at that point what he said. She had the realization that she didn't have real feelings for him and he didn't have any for her. She was true to herself in bowing out at that point. It might have been the lawyer in her that wouldn't allow her to just let it go at some point. She let JP's refrain of "it's okay" get to her all over again. She got angry and emotional. But the reason she was leaving is because JP didn't seem interested in her, didn't want to know anything about her, said things that were offensive and just wasn't into it. So why should she think he would behave any differently when she confronted him?

As for JP himself, I don't believe that he came into this wanting to find a wife and mother for his child. if he did, then he would have let Sharleen go. She was not going to settle down with him. I have no problem with him being the Bachelor for whatever reason, but I do think he bears some responsibility for what has happened. There is a huge cultural divide between JP and these women. That has been a big part of the problem. If this was in the real world, then they would have time to get to know each other and understand their different cultural beliefs. But this show doesn't provide that kind of time. So it was never going to work. I can't say that JP is being thrown under the bus any more than other Bachelors who came before him. But he has done some of the damage all by himself.

I think the WTA is going to be quite interesting. If some of the other women felt the same way as Andi, then we will know that there were valid reasons as to why Andi took herself out.

In other word you think Andi is right and Juan Pablo is wrong.

I don't have any problem with Andi taking herself out - it's the way she spoke to him. Even if everything she thought and felt is accurate from her perspective, here is no need to be rude. There is a right way and a wrong way to speak to people. She had plenty of time to think through what she was going to say to him. IMO

by Nativenewyorker Sun Mar 02, 2014 5:10 am

pbmax wrote:
Nativenewyorker wrote:I believe that feelings aren't right or wrong, they just are. Andi felt disrespected by JP in the fantasy suite. I can understand her not liking hearing JP talk about his overnight date with Clare. I can also understand her not liking him tell her that she barely made it to the F3. Why would anyone want to hear that? There is honesty and then there is a kind of honesty that is really a kind of cruelty and callousness. It's not necessary for anyone to say exactly what is on their mind every single hour of the day. Sometimes it's best to hold back. It's all about being respectful of others and sensitive to their feelings. JP saying that this is who he is and he's just being honest, is a bit disingenuous. I have known people who trumpeted their so-called honesty, but it was really their way of rationalizing their own hostility and anger. That's why I am always a bit skeptical when anyone starts going on and on about just being honest.

I think that Andi made her decision and all that was left was to tell JP. Where I think she got lost is when she let his responses get to her. It really didn't matter at that point what he said. She had the realization that she didn't have real feelings for him and he didn't have any for her. She was true to herself in bowing out at that point. It might have been the lawyer in her that wouldn't allow her to just let it go at some point. She let JP's refrain of "it's okay" get to her all over again. She got angry and emotional. But the reason she was leaving is because JP didn't seem interested in her, didn't want to know anything about her, said things that were offensive and just wasn't into it. So why should she think he would behave any differently when she confronted him?

As for JP himself, I don't believe that he came into this wanting to find a wife and mother for his child. if he did, then he would have let Sharleen go. She was not going to settle down with him. I have no problem with him being the Bachelor for whatever reason, but I do think he bears some responsibility for what has happened. There is a huge cultural divide between JP and these women. That has been a big part of the problem. If this was in the real world, then they would have time to get to know each other and understand their different cultural beliefs. But this show doesn't provide that kind of time. So it was never going to work. I can't say that JP is being thrown under the bus any more than other Bachelors who came before him. But he has done some of the damage all by himself.

I think the WTA is going to be quite interesting. If some of the other women felt the same way as Andi, then we will know that there were valid reasons as to why Andi took herself out.

In other word you think Andi is right and Juan Pablo is wrong.

Sorry, but now you are putting words in my mouth. That's quite an oversimplification of what I said. I really dislike when my comments are distorted or reduced to something that they are not. I was stating why I believe that Andi acted in the right way for her when she decided to leave. As I said, but it's worth repeating one more time for emphasis, feelings aren't right or wrong, they simply are! She expressed her feelings. Nothing can change that. So it's not about people being right or wrong, but it's interesting that you seem to want to see it that way. I also said where I thought she went wrong and my belief that TPTB were a part of that. They do love to manipulate people for dramatic effect.

I also didn't just cheerlead everything Andi did. I explained where I thought she went off track. In allowing herself to react so emotionally and get upset over JP's response, she lost the purpose of the discussion. She already knew that he wasn't really interested in her, what she thought, what she felt, who she was. There was no reason for her to expect JP to react any differently at this point. He wasn't going to get into any kind of dramatic argument with her. But she felt that all the "it's okay's" from him weren't responsive. I don't know what she expected of him. It was what it was. So if she had just said her piece, explained why she felt uncomfortable and disrespected and then said she was leaving, then that would have been more effective and come across better. When she lost it emotionally, that just made JP look better in that moment.

I stand by what I said. If you feel differently, that's your right. But I would really appreciate it if you didn't try to rewrite or reword what I said.

by albean99 Sun Mar 02, 2014 2:26 pm

I thought what you said was very well stated, NNY. I think there's a tendency to make everything black and white instead the gray that's more common. We have Andi, JP, and TPTB and all played a part. To me none came out smelling like roses. I probably side with Andi more because of the piling on but by no means do I think she handled it the best way she could have. I'm sure she has a lot of regrets but do believe they all moved on months ago (JP even sooner, lol).

by Longhornfan Sun Mar 02, 2014 2:59 pm

Nativenewyorker wrote:

I think that Andi made her decision and all that was left was to tell JP. Where I think she got lost is when she let his responses get to her. It really didn't matter at that point what he said. She had the realization that she didn't have real feelings for him and he didn't have any for her. She was true to herself in bowing out at that point. It might have been the lawyer in her that wouldn't allow her to just let it go at some point. She let JP's refrain of "it's okay" get to her all over again. She got angry and emotional. But the reason she was leaving is because JP didn't seem interested in her, didn't want to know anything about her, said things that were offensive and just wasn't into it. So why should she think he would behave any differently when she confronted him?

As for JP himself, I don't believe that he came into this wanting to find a wife and mother for his child. There is a huge cultural divide between JP and these women. That has been a big part of the problem. If this was in the real world, then they would have time to get to know each other and understand their different cultural beliefs. But this show doesn't provide that kind of time. So it was never going to work. I can't say that JP is being thrown under the bus any more than other Bachelors who came before him. But he has done some of the damage all by himself.

I think the WTA is going to be quite interesting. If some of the other women felt the same way as Andi, then we will know that there were valid reasons as to why Andi took herself out.

Nativenewyorker, I brought forward the parts of your post that I wanted to reply to. I totally agree with your assessment of how the "I am leaving the show" discussion between JP and Andi went off the tracks. I, too, felt that no matter what JP was going to say to her or how he was going to react to her making the decision to leave the show, it really should not have mattered to her (in the true scope of things). Andi did not like what she saw of JP, came to the decision (100%) that she did not want to spend another moment with him, and he responded by telling her that he was "okay" with that decision. Like you said, she knew without a doubt that JP was not the man for her....end of discussion. From that point on, Andi had nothing to gain by starting an agrument, which is what that was.

Next, I agree that there is a huge cultural difference between JP and most of the women on the show. There was not enough time spent with JP in order to know what he is really like....out in the real world. All of their interactions with him were within the Bach Bubble, which was done in very unrealistic settings. To expect something else from the show is also unrealistic.

However, I do disagree with your last paragraph. The WTA will be highly edited. If they choose to make it a "pile on JP" episode, then that is the edit that we will see. And, there are a few of the women who might have an ax to grind with JP, so they will be sure to feature these women. One that we know who wants to confront him is Kelly, whose father is gay. Another thing to consider is that there were some female friendships that were formed on the show that were way better than their own personal relationships with JP. So, whose side do we think that they will be on? Certainly not JP's. We will see only a small portion of what really went on during the entire WTA, and it will only be what the editors choose to show us.

by pbmax Sun Mar 02, 2014 3:07 pm

Butter!

by stuckinsc Sun Mar 02, 2014 4:36 pm

I have skipped most of this discussion, but I just wanted to agree with Longhornfan (of course!) that the cultural differences this season were totally ignored. They chose a minority bachelor to end lawsuits, etc. But never bothered to try to understand what might make him different.

I like and liked Andi the whole season. I didn't like her complaining about being in the FS, I would have respected her more if she left when she first started getting upset. Maybe TPTB made her feel that she couldn't, but every second she stayed there made her a little dishonest. I thought the confrontation smacked of producer manipulation, which she fed right into and surprising JPG really hasn't. He has been a bit of a nightmare for TPTB to control and so I think they were happy to let Andi at him. They were probably disappointed in how graciously Sharleen and JPG handled her leaving. I think they were ready for someone to let him have it and with prodding Andi was happy to do that. Now, I think it is probably water under the bridge.

I think the "Ess Okay" tweet was a joke, it was after the WTA taping and seriously, I don't think JPG cared. Was it possibly insensitive? Maybe, but I forgave JPG for misspeaking in his interview when he used perverts and gays together, so I can forgive Andi this.

I do think Andi is a little bit of a spoiled Daddy's girl. That is okay, maybe being the Bachelorette will help that. I really hope some guy greats her with that is okay, kind of like Chantal slapping Brad out of the limo. Why not laugh at it?

Not a fan of the automatic weapons demonstration, but hopefully we won't have too much of that on her season either.

I don't ever expect a real engagement out of this show, so if Andi gets one great, if she just makes lots of money and we get to see lots of hot guys, that will be great too.

by Nativenewyorker Sun Mar 02, 2014 5:35 pm

Longhornfan wrote:
Nativenewyorker wrote:

I think that Andi made her decision and all that was left was to tell JP. Where I think she got lost is when she let his responses get to her. It really didn't matter at that point what he said. She had the realization that she didn't have real feelings for him and he didn't have any for her. She was true to herself in bowing out at that point. It might have been the lawyer in her that wouldn't allow her to just let it go at some point. She let JP's refrain of "it's okay" get to her all over again. She got angry and emotional. But the reason she was leaving is because JP didn't seem interested in her, didn't want to know anything about her, said things that were offensive and just wasn't into it. So why should she think he would behave any differently when she confronted him?

As for JP himself, I don't believe that he came into this wanting to find a wife and mother for his child. There is a huge cultural divide between JP and these women. That has been a big part of the problem. If this was in the real world, then they would have time to get to know each other and understand their different cultural beliefs. But this show doesn't provide that kind of time. So it was never going to work. I can't say that JP is being thrown under the bus any more than other Bachelors who came before him. But he has done some of the damage all by himself.

I think the WTA is going to be quite interesting. If some of the other women felt the same way as Andi, then we will know that there were valid reasons as to why Andi took herself out.

Nativenewyorker, I brought forward the parts of your post that I wanted to reply to. I totally agree with your assessment of how the "I am leaving the show" discussion between JP and Andi went off the tracks. I, too, felt that no matter what JP was going to say to her or how he was going to react to her making the decision to leave the show, it really should not have mattered to her (in the true scope of things). Andi did not like what she saw of JP, came to the decision (100%) that she did not want to spend another moment with him, and he responded by telling her that he was "okay" with that decision. Like you said, she knew without a doubt that JP was not the man for her....end of discussion. From that point on, Andi had nothing to gain by starting an agrument, which is what that was.

Next, I agree that there is a huge cultural difference between JP and most of the women on the show. There was not enough time spent with JP in order to know what he is really like....out in the real world. All of their interactions with him were within the Bach Bubble, which was done in very unrealistic settings. To expect something else from the show is also unrealistic.

However, I do disagree with your last paragraph. The WTA will be highly edited. If they choose to make it a "pile on JP" episode, then that is the edit that we will see. And, there are a few of the women who might have an ax to grind with JP, so they will be sure to feature these women. One that we know who wants to confront him is Kelly, whose father is gay. Another thing to consider is that there were some female friendships that were formed on the show that were way better than their own personal relationships with JP. So, whose side do we think that they will be on? Certainly not JP's. We will see only a small portion of what really went on during the entire WTA, and it will only be what the editors choose to show us.

Longhornfan,

I appreciate your response. Regarding the area in which there is disagreement between us, I will say that you do make some valid points. So I can agree with the points you made, especially in bold. It is true that the WTA is highly edited and we see what TPTB wish us to see. They can edit it to make things seem the way they want them to be. In that regard, I will say that you are correct.

In the end, I don't think Andi even needs validation from the other women. As I said initially, feelings aren't right or wrong, they just are. She didn't like how things went with JP in the fantasy suite, she had some clarity about him and her feelings or the lack thereof and acted accordingly. I am sure that everyone has moved on by now.

by sparkler Mon Mar 03, 2014 9:22 pm

I am not sure where to post this but I live in the Atlanta area and the local channel 2 news just talked about Andi. She is an assistant distract attorney, as we all know, and evidently she took three months of unpaid leave to do "the bachelor and the bachelorette." There was much discussion on her absence and how it affects the court system. The conclusion was that basically she will be easily replaced. they were talking about a murder case that she was involved in and will it affect the outcome etc. with her absence. I guess this proves that she will be the next bachelorette, at least to me.

by Mirzam Mon Mar 03, 2014 9:24 pm

RealitySteve ‏@RealitySteve 8m
A couple of Andi's guys filmed their intro videos over the wknd & even today. I'll fill you in on who next wk when I reveal your first 5.

by glazedover Mon Mar 03, 2014 9:32 pm

Mirzam wrote:
RealitySteve ‏@RealitySteve 8m
A couple of Andi's guys filmed their intro videos over the wknd & even today. I'll fill you in on who next wk when I reveal your first 5.

I'm sorry to hear that. I am not looking forward to watching her mouth turn down at the corners for a whole season, even if she is a smart cookie.

by Jeepers Mon Mar 03, 2014 9:55 pm

3 month leave?? .. More like a year

by MVMom39forever Tue Mar 04, 2014 12:23 am

Just finished watching Andi on WTA and thought she did a wonderful job in reestablishing her "likability" and explaining exactly what happened in suite. I am team Andi for Bacherlorette! I hope she finds her Great Love.

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