Re: The Bachelor: Women Tell All - 3/04 - Discussion Thread

[Lucas15]

First of all, AshLee and her whole story (up to this date in time) make me feel so lucky for what I have had in my life. No child should ever have to go through what she did.

The unfortunate thing is that experience has become her whole identity. She continually plays the role of the victim. She told Sean about it the first night. It was easy for Sean to get sucked in because he sees part of his role as a "man" as that of a protector. And clearly, she was painting herself as a person that needed protecting. Instead of looking inward and taking responsibility herself, she has to blame someone else. She blamed her mother for her decision to get married at 17. Instead of saying I made a stupid 17 year old choice, it was, it was the ONLY way I could get away from my mother. And, as we saw, she couldn't say, I see and understand now that we weren't the best match. I wish you nothing but the best because I cared deeply for you. Instead, Sean you weren't who I thought YOU were ......you are nothing but a frat boy that leads women on. When he was explaining why he had a change of heart, I doubt that she was even listening.

On the other hand, Catherine had two incredibly horrible experiences as a child (again, how lucky am I!). She told Sean about them but only after the relationship started becoming serious. They were definitely things he needed to know about her, not because they define her but because these experiences help shape who she is today.

For those that keep saying Sean is immature.....he like practical jokes, etc. Sean worships his dad and wants to be just like his dad and wants to have a relationship just like his mom and dad. His dad is a practical joker.....it is what it is.

I think that Sean did learn a lot during this season. That he can be with a strong independent woman and still be her protector while she takes responsibility for her own happiness. That it is better to be with someone that makes you happy every time you are with them, than to be with someone that matches you bullet point by bullet point on paper. And quite possibly, that you might have to compromise to be with the one that you truly love.

One of the best posts I've read in years. Congratulations. I would only add that when you love someone what you do for them doesn't feel much like compromise - more like a loving gift.

[iamreal2u]

First of all, AshLee and her whole story (up to this date in time) make me feel so lucky for what I have had in my life. No child should ever have to go through what she did.

The unfortunate thing is that experience has become her whole identity. She continually plays the role of the victim. She told Sean about it the first night. It was easy for Sean to get sucked in because he sees part of his role as a "man" as that of a protector. And clearly, she was painting herself as a person that needed protecting. Instead of looking inward and taking responsibility herself, she has to blame someone else. She blamed her mother for her decision to get married at 17. Instead of saying I made a stupid 17 year old choice, it was, it was the ONLY way I could get away from my mother. And, as we saw, she couldn't say, I see and understand now that we weren't the best match. I wish you nothing but the best because I cared deeply for you. Instead, Sean you weren't who I thought YOU were ......you are nothing but a frat boy that leads women on. When he was explaining why he had a change of heart, I doubt that she was even listening.

On the other hand, Catherine had two incredibly horrible experiences as a child (again, how lucky am I!). She told Sean about them but only after the relationship started becoming serious. They were definitely things he needed to know about her, not because they define her but because these experiences help shape who she is today.

For those that keep saying Sean is immature.....he like practical jokes, etc. Sean worships his dad and wants to be just like his dad and wants to have a relationship just like his mom and dad. His dad is a practical joker.....it is what it is.

I think that Sean did learn a lot during this season. That he can be with a strong independent woman and still be her protector while she takes responsibility for her own happiness. That it is better to be with someone that makes you happy every time you are with them, than to be with someone that matches you bullet point by bullet point on paper. And quite possibly, that you might have to compromise to be with the one that you truly love.

One of the best posts I've read in years. Congratulations. I would only add that when you love someone what you do for them doesn't feel much like compromise - more like a loving gift.

Exactly. Thank you both.

[Guest]

[/quote]
I don't feel that you are picking at my post. I work for a doctor who is one of the worlds leading doctors treating people with the use of hypnotherapy and we deal with people that have been abandoned and abused all the time. That was why I was making that point that it is AshLee's natural reaction to life. Some people have things like this happen to them and travel through life learning as they go that while things were horrible as a child that those events do not have to determine how they react to things in their adult life. Others like AshLee have a deeply wounded inner child and until she receives proper treatment will always hold herself tightly wound in order to control the things happening in her life. It is her coping skill in order not to let anything bad hapen in her life again. The only problem with that is that try as hard as we can we cannot control everything. That is why I said I feel sorry for her. She is using control as a coping mechanism and that sets her up for sure failure and disappointment when she can't control everything. I don't think she is bat-shit crazy as some have suggested, I think she is deeply wounded. She reacted in the only "normal" way she has known...by trying to be in control. I actually think that she and Tierra have a lot more in common than they think.[/quote]

I thought exactly the same thing...felt, in fact, that AshLee is more lethal than Tierra. Tierra is straightforward in her selfishness. Nobody was surprised by her antics. AshLee can be much more insidious and hurtful.

[luvluv]

I don't feel that you are picking at my post. I work for a doctor who is one of the worlds leading doctors treating people with the use of hypnotherapy and we deal with people that have been abandoned and abused all the time. That was why I was making that point that it is AshLee's natural reaction to life. Some people have things like this happen to them and travel through life learning as they go that while things were horrible as a child that those events do not have to determine how they react to things in their adult life. Others like AshLee have a deeply wounded inner child and until she receives proper treatment will always hold herself tightly wound in order to control the things happening in her life. It is her coping skill in order not to let anything bad hapen in her life again. The only problem with that is that try as hard as we can we cannot control everything. That is why I said I feel sorry for her. She is using control as a coping mechanism and that sets her up for sure failure and disappointment when she can't control everything. I don't think she is bat-shit crazy as some have suggested, I think she is deeply wounded. She reacted in the only "normal" way she has known...by trying to be in control. I actually think that she and Tierra have a lot more in common than they think.[/quote]

I thought exactly the same thing...felt, in fact, that AshLee is more lethal than Tierra. Tierra is straightforward in her selfishness. Nobody was surprised by her antics. AshLee can be much more insidious and hurtful.[/quote]

Me three lol. First post! For awhile now, I have really worried about Ashlee's mental health. Her "love' was way over the top very early. You look at a woman like Ashlee, and maybe cannot fathom why nobody has put a ring on it. I think in her case being SO INTENSE could have driven many a swell guy away.

[Longhornfan]

I think AshLee reacted in a way that was natural to her. If at age 32 she is still harboring resentment at being abanonded as a child even though for more than 90% of her life she has had a loving and stable home...then it is going to be in her nature for her to harbor resentment towards Sean for letting her go. She is not one who can look at the bigger picture but has to pick at the smaller issues that do not fit in with her vision of perfect alignment. That is probably the same reason that she would be fantastic at what she does....organize. But most people can not live in a perfectly ordered and rigid manner as she does. To put it bluntly she is just wound too tightly. She lives her life in the black and white and we all know that in the real world there is a heck of a lot of grey. I feel sorry for her. What peace or happiness can she have in her life if she is always looking for all the ducks to be in a row. Most of life will dissapoint her because life and love are messy and as much as you try somethings just can't be organized.

There is a lot of your post I agree with totally. So please, even though I am responding to it, do not think I am picking on it because that sincerely is not my intention.
I am responding to AshLee needing to move forward and receive help. I would not be surprised if she has not had help during her years. What happened during her first 6 years of life composed the first 19% of her life. Think about that. Almost 20% of her life she dealt with god only knows what--because we only know what she felt comfortable disclosing and what the machine felt they could exploit. I bet there is a lot more we do not know, nor need to know.
Thankfully, there are many of us here that have normal lives and had normal childhoods. But that is not the case for everyone. :Frown: What happens to people as children help mold and create their reality and color them as they grow into adults. There are children who are abused or abandoned or have other horrible things that happen to them due to no fault of their own and unfortunately it is part of who they are like religion or culture. They may even have positive tools they have acquired to deal and use them until life on life's terms raises it's ugly head and triggers those deep rooted feelings/issues. Isn't that partly what goes hand and hand with Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome?
I am not making an excuse for what we saw on tv--we all have life issues. However, I think we need to take in consideration the exploitation and manipulations that can go on with this show in order to get a desired response. Being on this show, is a prime example of a perfect storm for a monster raising it's head for someone like AshLee. This was not the best life choice for her and hopefully she will grow from it. From the POV of the Machine--great cast person to exploit sensitive issues for a season, then toss out like day old pizza.
I was told once that control is a coping mechanism we use to deal with fear and insecurities. Like any other tool it has it's proper use. It's too bad this show and TPTB don't behave more responsibly with it.

I don't feel that you are picking at my post. I work for a doctor who is one of the worlds leading doctors treating people with the use of hypnotherapy and we deal with people that have been abandoned and abused all the time. That was why I was making that point that it is AshLee's natural reaction to life. Some people have things like this happen to them and travel through life learning as they go that while things were horrible as a child that those events do not have to determine how they react to things in their adult life. Others like AshLee have a deeply wounded inner child and until she receives proper treatment will always hold herself tightly wound in order to control the things happening in her life. It is her coping skill in order not to let anything bad hapen in her life again. The only problem with that is that try as hard as we can we cannot control everything. That is why I said I feel sorry for her. She is using control as a coping mechanism and that sets her up for sure failure and disappointment when she can't control everything. I don't think she is bat-shit crazy as some have suggested, I think she is deeply wounded. She reacted in the only "normal" way she has known...by trying to be in control. I actually think that she and Tierra have a lot more in common than they think.

Cheers to both your post and to Kasha's post as well!!!

And I just want to add that I cringed when I read the terminology "bat shit crazy" as well. And at the same time, I felt certain that that is exactly the result that the powers to be were hoping for. After seeing the previews of the WTA, I had already prepared myself for that.

Thankfully for AshLee, people will soon move on to the next Bachelor/Bachelorette show and on to sleuthing a new cast of characters, and there will be yet another person or two for the producers to exploit and manipulate in that cast. Ashlee will just be yesterdays news. Hopefully AshLee will not participate in anything else that is produced by Fleiss and has learned the hard way that these people are not her friends!!

[deeliciouz]

First of all, AshLee and her whole story (up to this date in time) make me feel so lucky for what I have had in my life. No child should ever have to go through what she did.

The unfortunate thing is that experience has become her whole identity. She continually plays the role of the victim. She told Sean about it the first night. It was easy for Sean to get sucked in because he sees part of his role as a "man" as that of a protector. And clearly, she was painting herself as a person that needed protecting. Instead of looking inward and taking responsibility herself, she has to blame someone else. She blamed her mother for her decision to get married at 17. Instead of saying I made a stupid 17 year old choice, it was, it was the ONLY way I could get away from my mother. And, as we saw, she couldn't say, I see and understand now that we weren't the best match. I wish you nothing but the best because I cared deeply for you. Instead, Sean you weren't who I thought YOU were ......you are nothing but a frat boy that leads women on. When he was explaining why he had a change of heart, I doubt that she was even listening.

On the other hand, Catherine had two incredibly horrible experiences as a child (again, how lucky am I!). She told Sean about them but only after the relationship started becoming serious. They were definitely things he needed to know about her, not because they define her but because these experiences help shape who she is today.

For those that keep saying Sean is immature.....he like practical jokes, etc. Sean worships his dad and wants to be just like his dad and wants to have a relationship just like his mom and dad. His dad is a practical joker.....it is what it is.

I think that Sean did learn a lot during this season. That he can be with a strong independent woman and still be her protector while she takes responsibility for her own happiness. That it is better to be with someone that makes you happy every time you are with them, than to be with someone that matches you bullet point by bullet point on paper. And quite possibly, that you might have to compromise to be with the one that you truly love.

One of the best posts I've read in years. Congratulations. I would only add that when you love someone what you do for them doesn't feel much like compromise - more like a loving gift.

Exactly. Thank you both.

[HowSoonIsNow]

First of all, AshLee and her whole story (up to this date in time) make me feel so lucky for what I have had in my life. No child should ever have to go through what she did.

The unfortunate thing is that experience has become her whole identity. She continually plays the role of the victim. She told Sean about it the first night. It was easy for Sean to get sucked in because he sees part of his role as a "man" as that of a protector. And clearly, she was painting herself as a person that needed protecting. Instead of looking inward and taking responsibility herself, she has to blame someone else. She blamed her mother for her decision to get married at 17. Instead of saying I made a stupid 17 year old choice, it was, it was the ONLY way I could get away from my mother. And, as we saw, she couldn't say, I see and understand now that we weren't the best match. I wish you nothing but the best because I cared deeply for you. Instead, Sean you weren't who I thought YOU were ......you are nothing but a frat boy that leads women on. When he was explaining why he had a change of heart, I doubt that she was even listening.

On the other hand, Catherine had two incredibly horrible experiences as a child (again, how lucky am I!). She told Sean about them but only after the relationship started becoming serious. They were definitely things he needed to know about her, not because they define her but because these experiences help shape who she is today.

For those that keep saying Sean is immature.....he like practical jokes, etc. Sean worships his dad and wants to be just like his dad and wants to have a relationship just like his mom and dad. His dad is a practical joker.....it is what it is.

I think that Sean did learn a lot during this season. That he can be with a strong independent woman and still be her protector while she takes responsibility for her own happiness. That it is better to be with someone that makes you happy every time you are with them, than to be with someone that matches you bullet point by bullet point on paper. And quite possibly, that you might have to compromise to be with the one that you truly love.

One of the best posts I've read in years. Congratulations. I would only add that when you love someone what you do for them doesn't feel much like compromise - more like a loving gift.

Exactly. Thank you both.

My aunt has a saying: Your ideal man/woman is the one you give up all of your ideals for.

The future will show us whether Sean fell truly in love or not. If he insists on Catherine fitting right into his nicely laid plans for the future, then it won't have been true love. But if they jointly create a world for themselves that might veer from his original plans but makes sense for them as a couple, then we'll know it was true love. Frankly, I'd love to see Sean grow like that.

[Longhornfan]

On another topic from the WTA that I have not seen discussed here, it looked like to me that Kacie gave AshLee a high five when she returned to her seat after her talk with Sean.

Does anyone know what that was all about? Was Kacie's friendship with Sean ruined after her appearance on his season?

I know that there is someone from this board (Pooh?) that actually attended the WTA, and I wonder if CH talked with Kacie, and it was just not shown to us. I would have liked to hear what Kacie had to say.

[Guest]

First of all, AshLee and her whole story (up to this date in time) make me feel so lucky for what I have had in my life. No child should ever have to go through what she did.

The unfortunate thing is that experience has become her whole identity. She continually plays the role of the victim. She told Sean about it the first night. It was easy for Sean to get sucked in because he sees part of his role as a "man" as that of a protector. And clearly, she was painting herself as a person that needed protecting. Instead of looking inward and taking responsibility herself, she has to blame someone else. She blamed her mother for her decision to get married at 17. Instead of saying I made a stupid 17 year old choice, it was, it was the ONLY way I could get away from my mother. And, as we saw, she couldn't say, I see and understand now that we weren't the best match. I wish you nothing but the best because I cared deeply for you. Instead, Sean you weren't who I thought YOU were ......you are nothing but a frat boy that leads women on. When he was explaining why he had a change of heart, I doubt that she was even listening.

On the other hand, Catherine had two incredibly horrible experiences as a child (again, how lucky am I!). She told Sean about them but only after the relationship started becoming serious. They were definitely things he needed to know about her, not because they define her but because these experiences help shape who she is today.

For those that keep saying Sean is immature.....he like practical jokes, etc. Sean worships his dad and wants to be just like his dad and wants to have a relationship just like his mom and dad. His dad is a practical joker.....it is what it is.

I think that Sean did learn a lot during this season. That he can be with a strong independent woman and still be her protector while she takes responsibility for her own happiness. That it is better to be with someone that makes you happy every time you are with them, than to be with someone that matches you bullet point by bullet point on paper. And quite possibly, that you might have to compromise to be with the one that you truly love.

One of the best posts I've read in years. Congratulations. I would only add that when you love someone what you do for them doesn't feel much like compromise - more like a loving gift.

Exactly. Thank you both.

My aunt has a saying: Your ideal man/woman is the one you give up all of your ideals for.

The future will show us whether Sean fell truly in love or not. If he insists on Catherine fitting right into his nicely laid plans for the future, then it won't have been true love. But if they jointly create a world for themselves that might veer from his original plans but makes sense for them as a couple, then we'll know it was true love. Frankly, I'd love to see Sean grow like that.

I love this post because this is what I was getting at with my longwinded and maybe a bit alienating posts.

True love is rarely found in a neat carefully laid out package that you imagine, It rarely happens that way. It will force you to get out of your comfort zone, inconvenience you and consider things that you wouldn't dream of doing if you're just sitting on your status quo.

Maybe choosing Catherine is his subconscious way of rebelling from the status quo? I mean he could easily find a statuesque model beauty queen christian woman that would fit right in his family. even after TB or DWTS. But he chose Catherine, the most unlikely to fit into the that mold.

[Lucas15]

True love is rarely found in a neat carefully laid out package that you imagine, It rarely happens that way. It will force you to get out of your comfort zone, inconvenience you and consider things that you wouldn't dream of doing if you're just sitting on your status quo.

^^^^^^

I suspect that Sean has had lots of chances to meet that "statuesque model beauty queen christian woman that would fit right in his family" and perhaps found that they didn't fit right in with him. It seems that Sean likes the side of him that Catherine brings out and Catherine likes the side of herself that she can be around Sean. To me that looks like a pretty good fit for them and it's their opinion that counts - not mine.

[sky]

Two people from the exact background doesn't mean the marriage will work, they accept each other, that's the most important thing. Even one is voting for Romney, the other is voting for Obama, so what? They are not the president. Their opinions can't change the world or anything like that. Also debate if based on respect is kinda fun I think.

[albean99]

Two people from the exact background doesn't mean the marriage will work, they accept each other, that's the most important thing. Even one is voting for Romney, the other is voting for Obama, so what? They are not the president. Their opinions can't change the world or anything like that. Also debate if based on respect is kinda fun I think.

I know someone who's a Dem & married to a conservative former Marine. He loves to argue politics but they don't do it with each other. That's probably why they're still together. :Nod:

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