Nick Viall - Bachelorette 10 - Discussion - #8

mindless wrote:

Acrunch wrote:

She only said those things AFTER the sex had been brought up. When she basically had no choice, unless she wanted to come across as just another horndog. Before that she was giving Nick as little as humanly possible. Simply saying they had a great relationship doesn't answer any questions and it's certainly a poor way to show sympathy.

I don't agree.  Here is what she said BEFORE Nick kiss and told on live tv and I'll leave it at that:

Chris: Andi u guys obviously had a great relationship or he wouldn't have been in your final 2. And you and I talked about Nick quite a bit. I know it's tough to be here and it's emotionally charged but I think it's an important question. Did you love Nick or at least love parts of Nick. Were u in love with him?  

Andi: I'm, I mean I was not in love with him and that's why I didn't tell him I was in love with him. If I felt I was in love with you I would have said that. That's why I was very careful not to say that. I mean, I did have a great relationship with him. If I did if all over again I would have still had the same great relationship that I had with Nick.  I genuinely 100% believe that.  But at the end of the day it's like, I know it sounds harsh to say but how do you compete with a greater relationship?  How do you compete with a greater love?  At the end of the day, that's all it comes down to.   There was nothing wrong that Nick did.  There was nothing wrong with our relationship except something else was more right.  And I know that's tough to say.  I probably should have said it months ago: it's very tough to say to someone's face but at the end of the day, that's the truth.  

Chris: Nick what are you thinking?

Sorry, I couldn't put myself thru watching that again!  We all know what he said next.

Well perhaps you should've watched the rest, because it was after Nick asked his question that she started insisting that she did care for him and meant all the things she said to him and about him. That his take on those things might have been different than hers, but she did mean them. That's the stuff I was referring to and it probably would've been nice to hear from the get-go, instead of being made feel like a fool for thinking she was in love even though she didn't say it (which she isn't allowed to anyway). I think Nick's ears pretty much shut off after "I was not in love with him and that's why I didn't tell him I was in love with him. If I felt I was in love with you I would have said that. That's why I was very careful not to say that.", because his mind was too busy processing what he'd just heard.

good point mindless. Nick pretty much reiterated this in his blog.

SueSt wrote:

sdmom wrote:Have I missed something? Has Nick ever blamed on anyone? For what? From what I remember, he always said he'd take full responsibility for what he's said/done.

Thank you sdmom.  In my eyes, Nick has been a gentleman throughout... not so his co-stars.

I have to respectfully disagree with you here. For me, a gentleman never kisses and tells.

vivi2 wrote:

sdmom wrote:Have I missed something? Has Nick ever blamed on anyone? For what? From what I remember, he always said he'd take full responsibility for what he's said/done.

No, you haven't missed anything, It's the same ol' thing--" why you made love to me.."  or
" her demeanor made me say it" or... . Do you need to hear more?

I see. No matter what some may say, I thoroughly enjoyed watching Nick on the show and love to read his SM postings post show.

Nick a gentleman, maybe on some other planet. A gentleman does not take secrets from the bedroom and blab about them, no matter what the situation is, real life or the show. The fact that no other contestant in all these years of this show being on, has ever said at the ATFR they had sex in the FS, when they did, in fact, & also left broken hearted, speaks for itself.  Not classy at all. At least he seems to enjoy the bar scene, so maybe he'll meet someone more on his level.

GuardianAngel wrote:Keep in mind, that letter was presented as being written right before the MTA or at MTA when Andi wouldn't see him.  But TPTB is tricky, so we really have no idea when the letter was written, only when they chose to give it to Andi.

It is my firm belief that TPTB manipulated both Andi and Nick after the FRC.  I believe they told Nick that Andi wasn't happy with her decision and they told Andi that Nick wasn't letting go, probably both exaggerations or not truth at all. TPTB wanted this to blow up and in some ways I still believe they would have loved for Andi to change her mind or for Josh to dump her and for him to be available to be the bachelor.  I would rather have watched Josh as the lead instead of Chris, so I can understand.  It is a rotten thing to do, but I put nothing past TPTB.

 
We don't really know when the letter was actually written, but we saw Nick give it to CH at the MTA and CH gave it to Andi, so Nick was holding on to it up until then - or at least that was how the edit made it appear.

I also believe that Nick was manipulated after the FRC. The FRC was I believe May 9 and Andi broke up with Nick the day before (May 8) and Nick flew home on May 11 and on his way home he talked to his parents and made reference to Jason's season where Jason changed his mind - so at least by May 11 Nick was already of a mind set that Andi might similarly change her mind. Whether that was entirely his own thinking or the result of producer maniuplation or some combination of the two we can't know. I do think that in spite of the fact that Andi wouldn't meet with him, Nick may have been hopeful that his letter could have caused Andi to rethink. And let's not forget - they sent a producer and film crew to Milwaukee to film Nick and they must have given Nick some explanation for why they did that filming. I think by the time of the AFR Nick's expectations could have been high that something "big" was going to happen at the AFR and when he stepped on stage IMHO that's what he was expecting.

Given what I know that the producers have done before I would not put it past them to have set Nick up to ask "the question" in an attempt to get Josh to break up with Andi because if anyone wanted to accomplish that objective, then that question would have had the best chance at getting that result. Of course this makes the assumption that the producers did not know that Andi had already told Josh (probably 2+ months earlier) what had happened and asking that question accomplished absolutely nothing. If the producers knew Andi had told Joah all about the FD with Nick and that Andi & Josh had just spent 2 months living with Josh and their relationship was going very well then they were just stupid to think they could break up the relationship. Of course they do sometimes do stupid things ...

Georgia Lindsay wrote:Nick a gentleman, maybe on some other planet. A gentleman does not take secrets from the bedroom and blab about them, no matter what the situation is, real life or the show. The fact that no other contestant in all these years of this show being on, has ever said at the ATFR they had sex in the FS, when they did, in fact, & also left broken hearted, speaks for itself.  Not classy at all. At least he seems to enjoy the bar scene, so maybe he'll meet someone more on his level.

All of this talk of being a gentleman or not. When a woman assumes the role of the man, which by being the lead and choosing to have sex with someone who loved her when she claims to not have loved him Andi did. Then in fact I would say that Nick is no different than Clare who outed JPG or any other woman who has questioned a man for having sex with her when he didn't love her.

Andi doesn't get to enjoy the perks of taking the assertive male type lead without having to take the responsibility for her actions.

So no, I don't think Nick broke the gentleman rule, since Andi was in fact not acting like a lady with her actions.

This is my opinion, but like the opinions of all those who hate on Nick for being anti-gentlemanly, we are all allowed our opinions here on this board.

Clare outed JP at the FRC, not the AFRC, big difference.

 Nick did his poor me story almost 3 months after Josh proposed. He knew they were together and engaged. It was a classless  move. No one or anything will ever convince me that Nick's sole purpose wasn't  to: 1) try and break up Josh and Andi  2) Humiliate Andi and in a sense, Josh too. He's a total dbag, self centered, emotionally immature and on an ego trip and that's all I have to say.

This isn't a Nick fan forum, so we all are entitled to say how we feel about Nick. Oh, and he really embarrassed himself in the end of it.  I won't be back to comment, really Nick is not worth my time, because nothing will ever change my mind. Goodnight.

stuckinsc wrote:

Georgia Lindsay wrote:Nick a gentleman, maybe on some other planet. A gentleman does not take secrets from the bedroom and blab about them, no matter what the situation is, real life or the show. The fact that no other contestant in all these years of this show being on, has ever said at the ATFR they had sex in the FS, when they did, in fact, & also left broken hearted, speaks for itself.  Not classy at all. At least he seems to enjoy the bar scene, so maybe he'll meet someone more on his level.

All of this talk of being a gentleman or not.  When a woman assumes the role of the man, which by being the lead and choosing to have sex with someone who loved her when she claims to not have loved him Andi did.  Then in fact I would say that Nick is no different than Clare who outed JPG or any other woman who has questioned a man for having sex with her when he didn't love her.

Andi doesn't get to enjoy the perks of taking the assertive male type lead without having to take the responsibility for her actions.

So no, I don't think Nick broke the gentleman rule, since Andi was in fact not acting like a lady with her actions.

This is my opinion, but like the opinions of all those who hate on Nick for being anti-gentlemanly, we are all allowed our opinions here on this board.

New to posting but I've been reading for a while and I have to disagree.

Nick's actions don't get excused based whether we feel Andi was a lady or not. That's an argument only 5 year olds should use, not grown men.

Our actions are our own and only we are responsible for them. Being a gentleman is easy when everything's going our way, it's when they aren't that shows the strength of our character IMO.

Honestly, I am glad that Nick said what he said at ATFR. I am so tired of seeing these leads take full advantage of their F2 knowing they have all the power. Hopefully, what occurred at the ATFR will make future leads think twice before they sleep with an F2 that has professed their love to them. It was painful to see how much pain Nick had to endure this season just as it was painful to see Reid and Ben F in their seasons get rejected by the lead. I hate to say this, but I hope this reality show is coming to an end because it has become so predictable and soul crushing to those contestants that end up getting rejected. I really thought I had seen the worst rejection when it came to Ben F and Ashley but this season took the cake! Andi went too far in leading Nick on, IMHO. And her demeanor towards Nick at the ATFR was diabolical! What was so comical was how both Andi and Josh were stating they didn't associate with people like Nick like they were holier than thou. Andi clearly loved associating herself with Nick that she went as far as opening her legs for him! Aghhh... I just don't know how Josh can trust someone who would sleep with another guy within a span of a week before sleeping with him while still professing she loved you from the moment you stepped out of the limo.... Nick by all accounts seems to have moved on nicely and only time will tell the true colors of all these contestants.

stuckinsc wrote:

Georgia Lindsay wrote:Nick a gentleman, maybe on some other planet. A gentleman does not take secrets from the bedroom and blab about them, no matter what the situation is, real life or the show. The fact that no other contestant in all these years of this show being on, has ever said at the ATFR they had sex in the FS, when they did, in fact, & also left broken hearted, speaks for itself.  Not classy at all. At least he seems to enjoy the bar scene, so maybe he'll meet someone more on his level.

All of this talk of being a gentleman or not.  When a woman assumes the role of the man, which by being the lead and choosing to have sex with someone who loved her when she claims to not have loved him Andi did.  Then in fact I would say that Nick is no different than Clare who outed JPG or any other woman who has questioned a man for having sex with her when he didn't love her.

Andi doesn't get to enjoy the perks of taking the assertive male type lead without having to take the responsibility for her actions.

So no, I don't think Nick broke the gentleman rule, since Andi was in fact not acting like a lady with her actions.

This is my opinion, but like the opinions of all those who hate on Nick for being anti-gentlemanly, we are all allowed our opinions here on this board.

And in the context of a REALITY SHOW where EVERYTHING is put out in the open, under a microscope, I don't think it's reasonable to think you have the power to pick and choose what you deem appropriate to discuss or not. It's all open for discussion. In my mind Andi initiated or at least was a VERY willing participant in what went on in the FS... and more significantly, really hurt Nick by her actions. In this light, I think she has to be ready to take her just rewards so to speak; I don’t think she gets to feign being shocked or say Nick’s questions are inappropriate.

My point about Nick being a gentleman is that he never stooped to the level of calling Andi (or Josh) classless or saying one bad thing about either. His focus has been about getting answers to his legitimate questions.

unknown82 wrote:Honestly, I am glad that Nick said what he said at ATFR. I am so tired of seeing these leads take full advantage of their F2 knowing they have all the power.  Hopefully, what occurred at the ATFR will make future leads think twice before they sleep with an F2 that has professed their love to them.  It was painful to see how much pain Nick had to endure this season just as it was painful to see Reid and Ben F in their seasons get rejected by the lead.  I hate to say this, but I hope this reality show is coming to an end because it has become so predictable and soul crushing to those contestants that end up getting rejected.  I really thought I had seen the worst rejection when it came to Ben F and Ashley but this season took the cake!  Andi went too far in leading Nick on, IMHO.  And her demeanor towards Nick at the ATFR was diabolical!  What was so comical was how both Andi and Josh were stating they didn't associate with people like Nick like they were holier than thou.  Andi clearly loved associating herself with Nick that she went as far as opening her legs for him! Aghhh... I just don't know how Josh can trust someone who would sleep with another guy within a span of a week before sleeping with him while still professing she loved you from the moment you stepped out of the limo.... Nick by all accounts seems to have moved on nicely and only time will tell the true colors of all these contestants.

Great post, unknown!!
Cheers to the bold; her 'performance' post show has been despicable.... particularly in context of her actions on the show!
Happy to see that Nick seems to be moving on... looking forward to seeing him find his one true love!

One thing that got me thinking is that Andi said she was very careful not to tell Nick she loved him. If she didn't feel it then why would she have had to watch herself when it comes to saying those words? Does she have a habit of saying them without meaning or was she indeed in love, but now wants to pretend she wasn't? It was just a strange thing to say. I mean I have trouble getting those words out for the first time, even when I am feeling it, and I certainly won't be saying them if I'm not. Let alone by accident.